It’s the same with politics. Article. The 2020 MacBook Air is also powered by Apple's new M1 processor which are Arm-based CPUs. That's triple the efficiency of the Ryzen 4700u running single-threaded and a little better than par with it when the Ryzen's running an optimally multithreaded workload. Huang demonstrated the CPU—running on an Odroid board—to EE Times at 4.327GHz/0.8V and 5.19GHz/1.1V. This is true. Micro Magic's new CPU prototype is seen here running on an Odroid board. CPU Benchmark Hierarchy 2020: Intel and AMD Processors Ranked. I’m old enough to remember scenes on the news of Chinese wearing Mao suits and going everywhere on bicycle. What you are talking about is implementation… I think. I’m bothered about the general purpose baseline versus the use case specific implementation issues. Interesting once the cost target was reached in printed SolarPV it hasn’t supplanted traditional silicon as first thought, but it’s become supplemental. Micro Magic adviser Andy Huang claimed the CPU could produce 13,000 CoreMarks (more on that later) at 5GHz and 1.1V while also putting out 11,000 CoreMarks at 4.25GHz—the latter all while consuming only 200mW. The nitty gritty of transcoding and subsystems (and VMs) cooperating with each other to anyone can run anything they like without vendor lock-in and forced obsolescence is a technical thing. Jim Salter - Dec 4, 2020 11:15 am UTC. 17. At 3GHz, that figure plummets to less than one-eighth the power required. Sorry but I don’t get what you are saying. I hear what you are saying, but I think you are looking for RISC-V to be more than it is, and that it wants to be. CNMN Collection While we've seen a screenshot of an 8,200 CoreMark score, and we've seen a 69mW power reading, it's not entirely clear that the power reading was representative of the entire benchmark run. No idea and the marketing puff doesn’t say. The Embedded Microprocessor Benchmark Consortium (EMBC) is a group with wide industry representation: Intel, Texas Instruments, ARM, Realtek, and Nokia are a few of its more notable and easily recognizable members. With modern backend cloud implementations being available in the PS5 for some cases the fastpath will be over an external network.). I’m quite confused that this is your response to me. “World’s best CPU performance per watt”: Testing conducted by Apple in October 2020 using preproduction 13-inch MacBook Pro systems with Apple M1 chip and 16GB of RAM. Corey Gaskin - Nov 10, 2020 6:38 pm UTC At the maximally performant 5GHz clock, it manages just over a third of their performance. Implementations are left to implementors. But isn’t it OK for those to be a subset of the whole, so consumers can choose, and still know that code will run on those processors transparently as proprietary implementations? What is performance per watt? with 103 posters participating, including story author. Things get considerably more complicated once you start talking about entire consumer-friendly systems, of course. With that said, it's worth pointing out that—if we take Micro Magic's numbers for granted—they're already beating the performance of some solid mobile phone CPUs. PC Apps; New RISC-V CPU claims recordbreaking efficiency per watt. All of this sounds very exciting—Micro Magic's new prototype is delivering solid smartphone-grade performance at a fraction of the power budget, using an instruction set that Linux already runs natively on. To put that in perspective, last year’s Snapdragon 865 with the 5th gen AI Engine featured 15 … Ultimately, while I have good vibes from RISC-V, I still fear that its openness could be subverted by corporate influences like has happened with most of our ARM devices. When we look back at the single‑threaded performance of low‑power silicon in the Mac, gains in performance per watt have been very small from one chip to the next. Ad Choices. I am not saying anything about politics, but their policy of favoring home grown processors internally is creating great incentive to be competative. But there isn’t a specific standard so that peripherals all work the same, or have the same memory addresses, etc for a microcontroller. As a FOSS user, what I want most is a very consistent and reliable boot strapping process where the owner is in control with no proprietary dependencies. ... promising that the M1 will offer the world's best CPU performance per watt. With both M1 and this there is a reason for healthy skepticism, even if the results ultimately prove out in the end. Read our affiliate link policy. Given time (and this is still very new) you probably will see chip manufacturers who are as open as they can possibly be, hell we may see completely open fabs at some point. Jim Salter So to summarize, there is binary compatibility so long as bitness and ISA subsets match, but that doesn’t doesn’t mean that you can just move from one CPU to another and assume that IO and the like all work the same. None of this made much of a dent in the Micro Magic's commanding lead in power efficiency. Well you can see some of that discussed in the FAQ, and you can get into the weeds by looking at the implementer’s guide. There are completely open and inspectable implementations of RISC-V that I think satisfy what you want, but at it’s core RISC-V is intended to spur innovation, research, implementations, etc by providing a common, IP-Free ISA. Ars Technica summarises and looks at the various claims made by Micro Magic about their RISC-V core. 10 Best SSDs you can buy today Gadget Flow. I still have an Apple M1 Mac Mini on hand, as well as a Ryzen 7 4700U-powered Acer Swift 3, so those were my test systems for comparison. Based on the idea that Ampere Computing has to offer at least a 20 percent price/performance advantage at the chip level compared to the best that Intel and AMD can throw at the cost per performance per watt equation that dominates the buying decisions of the hyperscalers and cloud builders that Ampere Computing is targeting. With that said, it would be an enormous undertaking to port—for example—an entire smartphone ecosystem, such as commercial Android, to a new architecture. Micro Magic Inc.—a small electronic design firm in Sunnyvale, California—has produced a prototype CPU that is several times more efficient than world-leading competitors, while retaining reasonable raw performance. RISC-V doesn’t concern itself with operating system interoperability but to dictate that would be to limit implentors. Performance per watt refers to the ratio of peak CPU performance to average power consumed using select industry standard benchmarks. I’m just happy being able to broach the subject. I always thought OpenGL got a lot of things right. (It's worth noting that we had no way to run CoreMark on the M1's slower, less battery-hungry Icestorm cores only.). I agree we are unlikely to see any movement on this although there are plenty of technical people who are interested. Still, this is an exciting development. New RISC-V CPU claims recordbreaking performance per watt. This can be annoying when you try to have an objective conversation, but that is human nature I suppose, haha. You must login or create an account to comment. RISC-V is one of the ways they are doing that, along with RISC-V, MIPS, ARM, and x86. The Micro Magic CPU is, for the moment, single-core and single-threaded—although Huang says it could "easily" be built as a 25-core part. Does anyone have any ideas what? Lobbyists and vested interests with deep pockets and now too many politicians spend more time leaning on marketing than creating good legal frameworks and policy based on the public interest. Literally, it measures the rate of computation that can be delivered by a computer for every watt of power consumed. This is extremely crude, and I caution readers not to rely too much on comparing the M1's efficiency to the Swift 3's on these numbers alone—but it's good enough to get some perspective on Micro Magic's claim for its new RISC-V (pronounced "risk five") CPU. I expect government regulators would have an eye on this too if public discussion got enough traction. In addition to building the operating system itself—not just the kernel, but drivers for all hardware from GPU to Wi-Fi to LTE modem, and more—third-party app developers would need to recompile their own applications for the new architecture as well. Even at its efficiency-first 3GHz clockrate, the Micro Magic CPU outperformed a Qualcomm Snapdragon 820. It is indeed good advice to study the data and the rules behind what generated the data. RISC-V could implement an x86 compatibility mode like apple, but for users like myself though, I don’t really see much benefit in emulating x86 code and I suspect most people who find RISC-V appealing aren’t that interested in emulating x86 either. (In some cases CPU was actually faster than the hardware renderer due to the technology of the time. There is flexibility but this contains gotchas. Micro Magic has provided figures—and in one case, a screenshot—for performance at 3GHz, 4.25GHz, and 5GHz. They probably learned a lot from microsoft’s x86 emulation and decided to go with hardware assistance. What the Chinese are up to at a hardware level is a response but I’m fearing the Chinese are basically taking an open system and (like NVidia who are ten times worse than AMD/ATI ever were) are effectively closing it in practice. At 5GHz, it outruns all four of the SiFive's cores. In judging AMD vs Intel CPU performance per watt, It's impossible to overstate the importance of having the densest process node paired with … As for whether it is good for all things all the time we don’t really know so comparing them to currents major CPUs isn’t an exact comparison. - Dec 4, 2020 11:15 am UTC. The main problem at the abstract level is core versus extended functionality. All rights reserved. 2020 is the year of a global pandemic that forced many of us to work from home. I’d really like to see RISC become the platform of choice for FOSS, but we’ve got a bit of a catch-22: we need manufacturers to make these products viable, yet all too often when they do it comes will strings attached, proprietary blobs, and owner restrictions. Join the Ars Orbital Transmission mailing list to get weekly updates delivered to your inbox. In addition vendors are allowed to create their own modules to push functionality down to the processor level (for example this is what WD is doing). If you've got access to a Linux system, it's pretty easy to download, compile, and run CoreMark yourself. I’m sure there will plenty of opportunity to revisit this in the future. So calling conventions, etc aren’t defined. It's a deliberately simplified CPU benchmarking tool released by the Embedded Microprocessor Benchmark Consortium, intended to be as platform-neutral and simple to build and use as possible. But is ... What is performance per watt? “World’s best CPU performance per watt”: Testing conducted by Apple in October 2020 using preproduction 13-inch MacBook Pro systems with Apple M1 chip and 16GB of RAM. o New Xe graphics with up to 96 execution units (EUs) with significant performance-per-watt efficiency improvements. At it’s high end it’s as capable as those processors so it would have a decent use case in the same space as what you’d use Pi’s or Rock64 boards on. Can they scale to more demanding uses? We would do the same if we were in their shoes. The numbers support that and do show ARM is more efficient in doing the tasks at hand, in this case Geekbench 5. For the Apple, I only had access to whole-system power draw, so I subtracted the "desktop idle" power draw from the "under test" power draw. The Snapdragon 820 isn't world-class anymore, but it's no slouch, either—it was the processor in the US version of Samsung's Galaxy S7. Getting the raw performance scores was considerably easier than getting truly comparable power readings. Scenario 1: Apple builds an ARM CPU just as fast as an x86 CPU, and is able to leverage its own ecosystem to deliver a modest improvement in performance per watt… 232. This specifically avoids most effects of system differences in memory, I/O, and so forth. Implementations are potentially going to vary within a single semiconductor company, and this is what we want. Your California Privacy Rights | Do Not Sell My Personal Information We first noticed Micro Magic's claims earlier this week, when EE Times reported on the company's new prototype CPU, which appears to be the fastest RISC-V CPU in the world. A lot was identical differing only in implementation where implementations certified for industrial use took less shortcuts and were pixel accurate, and retail implementations were a bit quick and dirty in places and sacrificed accuracy for performance reasons. We're also still taking a pretty fair amount of Micro Magic's claims at face value. Switzerland recently had its own scandal when it turned out one Swiss supplier of backdoored security products was owned by US and German intelligence. Micro Magic Inc.—a small digital design agency in Sunnyvale, California—has ... Home PC Apps New RISC-V CPU claims recordbreaking efficiency per watt. At this point I’d be happy if someone with influence produce a discussion document covering things like acces to instruction sets, interoperability with things like transcoding, the OS and VM layers, support for end users investments in software, the use of escrow and barriers such as copy protection and copyright. As for implemenations not necessarily open this is why I kind of obsess the issue including transcoding and architectual solutions or interfacing for modular systems which allow for genuine mix and match solutions. There would be other none technical considerations of course but I would expect anyone publishing this to consult and fold in the relevant sections. A chip on its shoulders — Apple dishes details on its new M1 chip Apple claims 8-core SoC offers world’s best performance per watt. For the vast majority of use cases there’s no real need to step away from. You would be better served by talking in a less technical way, and in one that emphasizes clarity. I’m content to leave thinsg there for now. o Power management – autonomous dynamic voltage frequency scaling in coherent fabric, You need to seperate the meta issues from business decisions from implementation. I think this really needs a technical vision articulating examining what is and isn’t possible then a deeper look at the gotchas and whether vendors will cooperate or not, and the use and abuse of patents and copyright to stop an advance in this area. Micro Magic intends to offer its new RISC-V design to customers using an IP licensing model. CoreMark focuses solely on the core pipeline functions of a CPU, including basic read/write, integer, and control operations. Jim Salter Andy Huang 200mW. The RISC-V ISA—unlike x86, ARM, and even MIPS—is open and provided under royalty-free licenses. It may be RISC-V benefits from some extentions to facilitate co-existance of OS and portability. We need to give implementers the freedom to experiment and innovate, and RISC-V gives them a compatible ISA to do that. For a broader context there are software versus fastpath issues where a given OpenGL function may have been fully or only partially implemented in typically faster graphics card hardware . Micro Magic's RISC-V CPU delivers about 1/4 of the raw performance of a single Apple M1 Firestorm core at its hyper-efficient 3GHz clockrate. I was just adding my own opinion. Higher results in the chart represent better value in terms of more performance per dollar. Part of the difficulty in evaluating Micro Magic's claim for its new CPU lies in figuring out just what a CoreMark is and how many of them are needed to make a fast CPU. I’m very curious about what would happen if we started including those $1 solar powered calculators in these performance per watt comparisons. I’m not getting into whataboutary or having words put in my mouth and as I think we’ve covered everything this is probably a good place to end discussion. At the power-efficient 3GHz clockrate, the Micro Magic CPU is nearly three times faster than, for example, SiFive's Freedom U540 CPU running single-threaded. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Condé Nast. With their projections for the Phoenix ARM core, Nuvia is claiming a performance per Watt advantage over the current core offerings from Apple, Qualcomm, Intel, and AMD. Fair comment. The 5nm M1 system-on-a-chip (SoC) features an 8-core CPU, which the company claims delivers the best performance-per-watt of any processor on the market, and up to … Ars Technica ... Micro Magic's new CPU offers decent performance with record-breaking efficiency. GCC and LLVM collaborated on what they wanted from a compiler implementation level, but anyone is fine to define their own (as with any other CPU). This rate is typically measured by performance on the LINPACK benchmark when trying to compare between computing systems: an example using this is the Green500 list of supercomputers. Ars may earn compensation on sales from links on this site. Marketing especially unethical marketing by its nature is not about communication and persuasion on the merits but about subverting your judgement. Don’t beat yourself up, the M1 did well in some benchmarks and poorly in others. Post sell off of ARM I feel there has been an uptick in RISC-V astroturfing. Now that we understood all that, the next step in order to better evaluate Micro Magic's claims was to run a few CoreMark benchmarks of our own. New RISC-V CPU claims recordbreaking performance per watt Micro Magic's new CPU offers decent performance with record-breaking efficiency. All we needed to do here was clone its GitHub repository, then issue a make command—optionally, with arguments XCFLAGS="-DMULTITHREAD=8 -DUSE_FORK=1" if we want to test on multiple threads/cores at once. Included in these lists are CPUs designed for servers and workstations (such as Intel Xeon and AMD EPYC/Opteron processors), desktop CPUs … For example: At roughly a quarter the performance of world-leading x86 and ARM mobile processors, the Micro Magic CPU doesn't sound like much yet. Everyone has their opinions and musings. I don’t know enough about the engineering to know what is covered by patent versus trade secret to know how much or little they can open up and this is before international security and trade wars are considered.
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